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'easy' way to make HearthRanger bot better in Arena
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Elekid
#1 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:47:30 PM(UTC)
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I read about SmartBot being totally free for a couple of days so I decided to give it a try. First thing I noticed is that it doesn't really do any better then Hearthranger in constructed ranked mode. Thanks to Joyadmin, Sepefeets and Dre!

Second thing I noticed it does make a lot of difference in Arena. I got lucky I guess, but my first run on full auto I went 11-3.

Main difference? It uses HearthArena for drafting, BUT it also uses a blacklist of cards the bot can't handle well.

It wouldn't be too difficult to make such a list for Hearthranger I think. I would gladly contribute. Is there anyone who can code that into the drafting process of the auto-arena?

I know it's not the goal of Hearthranger to do well in Arena, but I think this could be a step forward and I hope to start a discussion.
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MarinoBog on 10/24/2016(UTC)
sepefeets
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:21:06 PM(UTC)

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Elekid;42552 wrote:
I know it's not the goal of Hearthranger to do well in Arena, but I think this could be a step forward and I hope to start a discussion.

I don't think I've ever seen Joy say that. It's not MY goal for MY work on SF but I would accept pull requests if other devs did the work for SF, and anything with HR is Joy's business.

It is a slippery slope to do well in arena though. The better it does, the more people hear about it and start using it to try to earn extra rewards, the harder arena becomes... The global average arena run is always going to be 3-3 because for every win you get someone else had to lose.

I don't see how your suggestion is much different from manual drafting though other than it allows you to do more than one run at a time.

One run really isn't much to judge on, some people have gone 12 wins with HR and my SF but that doesn't make it typical. The last I saw, they were saying in their public forums that 4-5 wins was average for SB.
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Elekid on 10/23/2016(UTC)
Elekid
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:40:08 PM(UTC)
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Regulars on SmartBot are reporting an average of 5-3. I've only had the chance to do 6 or 7 runs and the 11-3 was an outlier indeed.

I know manual drafting is an alternative, but even then: wouldn't it be nice to have a list of cards we know the bot doesn't handle right, so we don't draft those? And if we have that list, I think it's worth automizing.

Quote:
The better it does, the more people hear about it and start using it


Yeah, that's the downside. Similar to HearthArena. It's been a while since I had an easy first game in an arena run.
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luffyDmonkey
#4 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2016 12:20:25 PM(UTC)
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yes i would love to see that being added to the bot
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MarinoBog
#5 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2016 12:34:17 PM(UTC)
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Personally I never used this bot for arena but than again I never used any other bot than this one. I never used it because the 3-3 win rate is not nearly good enough to use this bot for this thing. If the win rate was more like 5-3 and higher I would use the area after the 100 gold day cap that you can win by playing in any other mode(I play ranked). So yeah I support this topic and I would indeed would like to see this beeing implemented in this bot.
Thank you
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Searanger
#6 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2016 7:44:02 PM(UTC)
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I use overwolf to draft my decks then let the bot play. I average 5-3 or 6-3 so worth it in my mind.
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clee
#7 Posted : Monday, October 24, 2016 9:55:42 PM(UTC)
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It is possible that SF and HR does well in Arena because the calculations are based on value system. Meaning it calculates the best value for trades and plays from hand at that particular instance without contemplating synergies with other cards and also countering synergies from the opponent. Thats exactly how the arena is played. You simply play the best value trades and cards.

The bot is unlikely able to achieve higher than rank 5 consistently because most of the players above rank 5 will play with consideration of opponents cards deck type and to play your possible moves which the bot at this present moment doesn't.

It is possible to improve the bot by implementing neural logic to guess opponent's possible counter moves and play around them. I am not sure if the new Vision system is based on this.
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