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Sepefeets Silverfish update (OG, Kara, MSG)
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sadpwner
#351 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 4:07:24 AM(UTC)

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Turn 3, should place Imp Gang boss on the left.

http://pastebin.com/RvyZcukf

Generally, you want to play gangboss on the left because of direwolf alpha.

Same thing for this log. Turn 3.

http://pastebin.com/9N3a9T3N

__
http://pastebin.com/9N3a9T3N

Turn 2, should play the peddler over the egg because there are no activators in hand.

turn 7, it should play the power overwhelming it drew instead of the one from peddler. Basically, your opponent knows you have 2 POs in your deck but doesn't know the card you got from peddler, so you should play the card that your opponent knows you have.

___
http://pastebin.com/FD9vvWDp

Turn 4, had the opportunity and mana to play sea giant but didn't.
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sepefeets
#348 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 4:33:35 AM(UTC)

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parakeet;39112 wrote:
@sepefeet Whenever I try changing a log to "test.txt" and then run silver.exe I get the: "Input string was not in correct format" error.

Am I missing a step? What exactly do I need to do to simulate a board?

You need to put a single board in, not a whole log.
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sadpwner
#352 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 4:52:56 AM(UTC)

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http://pastebin.com/T5hki02E

Turn 6, should have defender the voidwalker and loatheb to play around cabal shadow priest a little bit.

turn 9, should have killed the cthun's chosen with the defender.
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Dre
#353 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 5:06:02 AM(UTC)

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@sepe What i find pretty anoying that when iam going over the logs from the nights i played with 121.1 & 2 is that i dont see many very bad plays. Nothing what indicates why my wr is 30% lower. Yes it attacks allot of minions where it should go face, but i dont recall this is allot beter in 121.0 and i dont know if u did anything with this. Just from looking at the logs i dont see many differences between 121.1/2 and 121.0... But i must be missing something. I did 2 nights with 121.0 again and got straight back to 55-60% wr. Another person tested my deck in 121.2 and got 30% wr aswell same drop as i had on 121.2 (and even 20% on 121.1) Iam getting pretty frustrated because i cant find what is wrong...

What i do see btw is that when using 121.1 the logging sometimes starts at 2 mana not logging the first turn. like here

Saw this again in a log from 121.1

Iam still pretty convinced 121.0 plays trog > coin - feral with the combo i have. Never saw this misplayed in all logs from 121.0 and now in serval logs in 121.1. maybe i need to accept when u say raise penalty for coin with 1 but iam scared this will cause new misplays. If you say not of the changes in 121.1 can cause this i guess i need to trust you. But my gut tells me 121.0 plays this correctly with my combo.
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sepefeets
#343 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 6:23:58 AM(UTC)

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parakeet;39111 wrote:
121.0SE

Missed fatal: http://paste.ee/p/RlScA
Misplay/Poor play: http://paste.ee/p/bl99i
Wolves before Trogg (result of combo.txt?): http://paste.ee/p/yGz0w

121.2SE

Allowed Opponent to keep fatal on board: http://paste.ee/p/TjbeP
Not sure why AI attacked Etheral Conjurer with Flame juggler: http://paste.ee/p/e5f5Z
Cast Rockbiter but didnt attack with it: http://paste.ee/p/SAGDk

I don't see lethal.
Give me a hint at least, what play?
Result of old version, that was fixed in 121.1se.

Yeah it doesn't counter enemy lethal well.
And it makes stupid trades sometimes too.
Hurray, finally a real regression instead of useless stats and plays that didn't change at all! Rockbiter is a real pain in the ass since it involves 2 actions (playing it on a target and then attacking with the target). I'll get this fixed tonight.

Dre;39118 wrote:
I've gone over some of my old logs from the day i was using 121.1 (25-6) and when my wr droped from 60 to 20%. Here are some highlights (i didnt sim this into 121.0 because iam at work) This is my shaman face deck with settings on face. As i mentioned before, on face settings the bot kills so many minions that are no treath at all. Iam not going to list those plays i think this happens in 121.0 aswell. It should only kill taunts or buffing minions on face settings. or a VERY efficient kill i.e. killing a 8/2 with a 2/1

skipped 1st turn when has a finley in hand (yes i have a cardvalue of 9 of finley so it doesnt play it instead of squire on turn on but that shoudnt cause it to not play anything at all on turn one) (the -value on squire didnt work) Also coin totem golem into next turn finley was good (I have no penaltys on those). But it did nothing at all.

I looked into the plays attacking 3/2's with doomhammer a little last night and found that a 300 bonus is coming from somewhere but it wasn't obvious where... I'll probably ignore this for a while.

That's the trouble with card values, if you raise it too much then the penalty for playing it is higher than the value it adds to the board.

Dre;39123 wrote:
@sepe What i find pretty anoying that when iam going over the logs from the nights i played with 121.1 & 2 is that i dont see many very bad plays. Nothing what indicates why my wr is 30% lower. Yes it attacks allot of minions where it should go face, but i dont recall this is allot beter in 121.0 and i dont know if u did anything with this. Just from looking at the logs i dont see many differences between 121.1/2 and 121.0... But i must be missing something. I did 2 nights with 121.0 again and got straight back to 55-60% wr. Another person tested my deck in 121.2 and got 30% wr aswell same drop as i had on 121.2 (and even 20% on 121.1) Iam getting pretty frustrated because i cant find what is wrong...

What i do see btw is that when using 121.1 the logging sometimes starts at 2 mana not logging the first turn. like here

Saw this again in a log from 121.1

Iam still pretty convinced 121.0 plays trog > coin - feral with the combo i have. Never saw this misplayed in all logs from 121.0 and now in serval logs in 121.1. maybe i need to accept when u say raise penalty for coin with 1 but iam scared this will cause new misplays. If you say not of the changes in 121.1 can cause this i guess i need to trust you. But my gut tells me 121.0 plays this correctly with my combo.

Hmmm, was that 2 mana log start on your first game, or in the middle of running? Is there a 1 turn 1 mana log before it? It could be related to settings switching but since you're not using that yet then there shouldn't be any differences for you between versions.

That's not really what I said at all about the trogg -> coin + feral spirits combo. I sim'd all the logs you gave with 3 versions of SF including botmaker's (you can do this too) and they all produced the same exact results. The misplay that you encountered exists in old builds too. It's not that the changes couldn't have affected it, it's that the sims show there was no change at all. This 3rd variation of it with trogg+finley turn 1 also stays the same from 120.0 to 120.2 regardless if the penalty for coin is in the combo, but it is different from a few versions before that when I added a tiny bonus for playing 1 drops on turn 1 because it wasn't playing 1/1 1 drops. I can adjust that bonus to be only for 1/1's and then it shouldn't want to coin finley for this case.
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Dre
#354 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 7:24:26 AM(UTC)

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-I know the penalty on finley could cause it not to play on turn on. But it that case it should have played coin + 2 drop. It dient make sense it skipped turn one.

-Nope the log just starts at 2 mana, no log before it. I had this 3 times that night i tested 121.1.

-Sorry i cant explain why 121.1 and 121.2 have such a lower wr then 121.0 on my agro sham. I try my best.

-made a post about it so its probably somehwere in your todo list. But please check the face settings. It kills so many infant minions. It hurts the SmOrc in his heart xD

-I still think its weird when i make a hard combo in the file for trog > coin feral it decites to do something else. The combo file should overrule other plays not? The bonuses are 30 first and 60 seccond to it so thats quite allot. Maybe i dont understand it correct. Maybe you can look into it to tweak it a bit. Maybe i just had all the right hand before because i checked all logs from 120.0 and it Always did this combo when trog + coin + feral was in hand. Maybe not these excat combination. Ill search again.
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sepefeets
#344 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:55:41 AM(UTC)

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parakeet;39111 wrote:

Cast Rockbiter but didnt attack with it: http://paste.ee/p/SAGDk

Actually I think this might have something to do with your combo and then data sync. The initial moves were going to be rockbiter -> doomhammer -> double attack images. With no combo or with Dre's aggro combos it plays the valiant instead, but if I give a huge bonus to the combo then it wants to play doomhammer + rockbiter even though that would waste rockbiter on the images. Then the bad data caused it to not do the combo. And then once it finally new about the temporary attack value it didn't do anything with it which seems to have been around for a while but not in botmaker's last build. I'll figure out why but fix your combo too.
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scottbreak
#355 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:52:31 AM(UTC)
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Did some testing on the Zoolock I have been working on.

HR 5.9 and SF 121.2 = 38% WR
HR 5.9 and SF 121.0 = 56% WR

BTW, the deck is struggling a bit to get back up to Rank 5 at the moment.
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Dre
#356 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 10:45:47 AM(UTC)

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scottbreak;39129 wrote:
Did some testing on the Zoolock I have been working on.

HR 5.9 and SF 121.2 = 38% WR
HR 5.9 and SF 121.0 = 56% WR

BTW, the deck is struggling a bit to get back up to Rank 5 at the moment.


Same for me difference in 121.0 and 121.2 - 121.1 was even lower. but 121.2 was 32-34% for me where 121.0 is 55-59%
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sadpwner
#357 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 12:41:01 PM(UTC)

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http://pastebin.com/fVJBBJYG

Turn 4, randomly suicides knife jungler for some reason. I think it assumed the knife missed or wasn't aware of it.
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sepefeets
#358 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:10:05 PM(UTC)

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V121.3SE released.

tiny bonus for using weapons with other weapons in hand should include muster
lower turn 1 minion nudging
don't waste rockbiter completely after data sync misplays it
send deck/class to the .exe every new game (if you restart the .exe for w/e reason then it will get the deck/class settings on the next game)
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anczej
#359 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:35:46 PM(UTC)
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Tonight I put Midrange Shaman Sepefeets settings on 5.9 HR with Sepe 121.2 SF and it hit 59% winrate from 13 rank to 8. Idk maybe lucky plays, but for sure not roping like it is on scotts settings.
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Dre
#360 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:43:26 PM(UTC)

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anczej;39134 wrote:
Tonight I put Midrange Shaman Sepefeets settings on 5.9 HR with Sepe 121.2 SF and it hit 59% winrate from 13 rank to 8. Idk maybe lucky plays, but for sure not roping like it is on scotts settings.


Wait maybe that is it! Maybe somehow 121.1 and 2 takes longer to calculate and iam roping on those updates...My pc is sick tho so iam doubting...Anyway

@sepe i dont know if you can build this feature. I ask Joy before but some kinds of "Rope-out counter" would be SOO handy to check if the low WR are from roping

@scottbreak Can you check with me, if the low winrate since 121.1 and 2 could possibly come from roping?

Iam going to test 121.3 and lower my settings a bit tonight.
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parakeet
#363 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:46:23 PM(UTC)

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Sorry Sepefeet...

Missed fatal on next turn. Should have cast doomhammer and attacked. Next turn was fatal with hero power regardless of taunts. Instead it cast tuskar totemic. : http://paste.ee/p/RlScA

Misplay/Poor play- Trades tunnel trogg and argent squire for C'Thun's Chosen and hexes the 6/5. Could have killed the 6/5 with tunnel trogg and hexed the C'Thun's Chosen : http://paste.ee/p/bl99i
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scottbreak
#362 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 1:56:48 PM(UTC)
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Dre;39135 wrote:
Wait maybe that is it! Maybe somehow 121.1 and 2 takes longer to calculate and iam roping on those updates...My pc is sick tho so iam doubting...Anyway

@sepe i dont know if you can build this feature. I ask Joy before but some kinds of "Rope-out counter" would be SOO handy to check if the low WR are from roping

@scottbreak Can you check with me, if the low winrate since 121.1 and 2 could possibly come from roping?

Iam going to test 121.3 and lower my settings a bit tonight.


Sounds like a plan. I will update to 121.3, lower setting, run tonight, and report back tomorrow.
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parakeet
#345 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:01:40 PM(UTC)

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sepefeets;39128 wrote:
Actually I think this might have something to do with your combo and then data sync. The initial moves were going to be rockbiter -> doomhammer -> double attack images. With no combo or with Dre's aggro combos it plays the valiant instead, but if I give a huge bonus to the combo then it wants to play doomhammer + rockbiter even though that would waste rockbiter on the images. Then the bad data caused it to not do the combo. And then once it finally new about the temporary attack value it didn't do anything with it which seems to have been around for a while but not in botmaker's last build. I'll figure out why but fix your combo too.


Mysterious... It was using Dre's 50 point bonus to the Doomhammer + Rockbiter play.
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anczej
#361 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:02:22 PM(UTC)
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Dre;39135 wrote:
Wait maybe that is it! Maybe somehow 121.1 and 2 takes longer to calculate and iam roping on those updates...My pc is sick tho so iam doubting...Anyway

@sepe i dont know if you can build this feature. I ask Joy before but some kinds of "Rope-out counter" would be SOO handy to check if the low WR are from roping

@scottbreak Can you check with me, if the low winrate since 121.1 and 2 could possibly come from roping?

Iam going to test 121.3 and lower my settings a bit tonight.



My notebook is pro too... but I found it roping for whole game when it starts somehow, it didnt make a move untill it was lost. It happened once on zoolock in SF 119 but never on shaman settings.
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sadpwner
#364 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:32:56 PM(UTC)

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http://pastebin.com/QMn4FefN

Turn 5, makes a huge mistake not killing the coldlight oracle.
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anczej
#365 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:02:50 PM(UTC)
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121.3 working flawlessly on midrange shaman, I didnt recognize any roping or missplay for 5 games. Reached rank 7, maybe its time to gain rank 5.
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parakeet
#366 Posted : Tuesday, June 28, 2016 3:35:18 PM(UTC)

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On roping and 121.2SE...

When I tested Dre's settings and got 36% WR, it was while I slept - so roping is possible.

When my midrange shaman dropped from rank 5 to rank 17, while I was out shopping,I came back to find it roping every game.
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