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Vick Nan
#1 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 5:58:52 PM(UTC)

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The Wallet Warrior is unique in the way that it has been along from the very first seasons, always a very good deck one way or the other. No other deck has survived the meta like this.

This is what inspired me to invest some dust in creating my own Wallet Warrior.

Here it is

HearthPWN Wallet Warrior Clicky

here is a variation used in Blizzcon 2015 qualification games by pro player Strelzik

HSTopDecks Strelziks Wallet Warrior


...and I gotta say this is just perfect. All evening I have been playing with it, meaning me, not botting, and I have not lost one single match so far.



Just thought I'd throw this out there. No forum is complete without a Wallet Warrior thread.

Maybe one day we'll just march on to legend with hearthranger and wallet warrior. For now, I will test the deck with silverfish and post my findings and stats here.


Best,
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weauat
#2 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2015 6:11:55 PM(UTC)

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wallet warrior is control warrior so blackoak is already working on settings and so forth.....its a solid deck but suffers a bit against ramp druid,both handlocks and secretdin so its not actually that great in the current meta. that said its my favorite deck besides freeze mage and a deck currently capable of hitting rank 7 with the bot and easily legend with a good pilot
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Vick Nan
#3 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2015 6:08:43 AM(UTC)

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weauat;31167 wrote:
wallet warrior is control warrior so blackoak is already working on settings and so forth.....its a solid deck but suffers a bit against ramp druid,both handlocks and secretdin so its not actually that great in the current meta. that said its my favorite deck besides freeze mage and a deck currently capable of hitting rank 7 with the bot and easily legend with a good pilot


Yeah first off I gotta say I just fell in love with the deck when testing it. It felt so right to use, action-consequence on playing out the cards felt logical and just tanking up with armour feels as a universal safe. So, off to casual and I was just ripping through the competition, not one single loss on as good as a solid late night of gaming.

Off to the ladder and boy did things take a turn for the worse, granted it was late and I was getting tired but now reading your input the fact is that I don't think I encountered anything but a couple of handlocks, quite a lot of ramp druids and a boatload of secredins, needless to say I got my ass handed to me.


I saw an interesting concept by Sottle over on icy-veins, namely this build, and am going to give it a go next.
I tried to make some modifications to the deck linked in the OT to make it suit my specific playstyle, but it seems the balance is pretty fragile (yeah, I got my ass handed to me, again).


Oh and playing in the ladder is totally totally different from casual. You learn so much fucking more in the ladder per play. Yeah a totally noob thing to say but really I'm a botter first, player second. Good thing you can just bot yourself up back to rank 6-4 after getting a beating lol. And now I'm derailing my own thread so I'll stop here,
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emilcoff
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2015 3:51:11 PM(UTC)
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Dont think this deck is gonna work with hearthranger.
Why ?
1_ CW has specific matches like freeze mage, where you have to armor up/tank up every turn and you win
2_ Play around brawl.
3_ Grommash = cleaning board/gettin lethal ? Bot just gonna play him
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Vick Nan
#5 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 7:19:32 AM(UTC)

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emilcoff;31211 wrote:
Dont think this deck is gonna work with hearthranger.
Why ?
1_ CW has specific matches like freeze mage, where you have to armor up/tank up every turn and you win
2_ Play around brawl.
3_ Grommash = cleaning board/gettin lethal ? Bot just gonna play him



Yeah after a full overnight session I woke up to the bot being at rank 12 with the deck. I don't have Varian Vrynn so I just exchanged him into Ragnaros. Maybe try today with Baron?

Watching the bot play was hilarious, I was watching from my iPhone in bed through my other account - I have two pretty much identical ones.

The opposition was like totally gape-mouthed, going "wtf wtf" when the bot just threw out Garrosh without activators. Not one or two players started preparing for some really heavy surprise and thus lost a lot of tempo. Hilarious.


But rank 12 without optimizing and in addition not even the deck listed, that's not too shabby. If one would go about coding the combos for Garrosh, I think it might even get upwards rank 10-5.

I think the trick with this deck is that mathematically, some seemingly impossible stunts are actually barely doable, and that's where it pays off with processing power. That's what it looked liked when spectating, it pulled off shit I wouldn't even have tried.
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BlackOak
#6 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 7:39:58 AM(UTC)
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Vick Nan;31231 wrote:
Yeah after a full overnight session I woke up to the bot being at rank 12 with the deck. I don't have Varian Vrynn so I just exchanged him into Ragnaros. Maybe try today with Baron?

Watching the bot play was hilarious, I was watching from my iPhone in bed through my other account - I have two pretty much identical ones.

The opposition was like totally gape-mouthed, going "wtf wtf" when the bot just threw out Garrosh without activators. Not one or two players started preparing for some really heavy surprise and thus lost a lot of tempo. Hilarious.


But rank 12 without optimizing and in addition not even the deck listed, that's not too shabby. If one would go about coding the combos for Garrosh, I think it might even get upwards rank 10-5.

I think the trick with this deck is that mathematically, some seemingly impossible stunts are actually barely doable, and that's where it pays off with processing power. That's what it looked liked when spectating, it pulled off shit I wouldn't even have tried.

Seeing this thread is on fire I thought I would put this as my next deck project :)

EDIT: Build and uploaded basic mulligan for this deck :)
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Vick Nan on 10/18/2015(UTC)
Vick Nan
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 9:29:22 AM(UTC)

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BlackOak;31235 wrote:
Seeing this thread is on fire I thought I would put this as my next deck project :)

EDIT: Build and uploaded basic mulligan for this deck :)



That's hellacool BlackOak, highly appreciated!

Doing some surface-scan research regarding the wallet warrior, there seems to be some consensus on it being "the ultimate p2w deck", which also is the only real 'negative' side. For reaching legend with HR? Might very well be ideal
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weauat
#7 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 11:38:58 AM(UTC)

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not sure if this would be one of the better decks to work on as the current meta is pretty fast and this is the most expensive deck to use lol....with that said thanks and gl without any settings i've hit rank 7 towards the end of last season with a control warrior teched out for aggro

BlackOak;31235 wrote:
Seeing this thread is on fire I thought I would put this as my next deck project :)

EDIT: Build and uploaded basic mulligan for this deck :)
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Vick Nan
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:09:21 PM(UTC)

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weauat;31240 wrote:
not sure if this would be one of the better decks to work on as the current meta is pretty fast and this is the most expensive deck to use lol....with that said thanks and gl without any settings i've hit rank 7 towards the end of last season with a control warrior teched out for aggro





By no means can I consider myself expert on the HS eco and trust even weauats judgement better than my own - I cannot ask for any higher priorities on something I'm basically fond of here. Granted, I do however believe, with my admittedly limited understanding that WalWal has more potential on the HR->Legendary front than many other decks, simply because of the price already, as weauat also pointed out. In everything, something usually emerges on the top and regarding HS it seems to be this deck.

Maybe do a good-humoured compromise by keeping the deck along, have data sets for it, and those who possesses can go ahead and try their luck. In the very least it's a decent addition to the library, I think.
Ofcourse it should also wait for it's turn to get the proper HR/Project Legend treatment, too.

Best deck for us to focus on all things considered? I actually have no idea, come to think of it. It seems pretty substantial amounts of empirically gathered data is needed for a somewhat reliable answer, the most data we have right now on is Secredin, so maybe that then, specifically for us here, is the safest bet?

What I do know is that if it takes some kind of a Retard-RAWR-FACE-RAWR-Hunter, I don't even want to make Legendary with it lol

/ot
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weauat
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 2:59:07 PM(UTC)

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nah i'd have to disagree control warrior imho has little potential for legendary as the style of play used for control warrior varies way to much depending on what ur matched up against. using this bot the style of play is pretty limited and for a deck to hit legendary with this bot you need some pretty simple plays like with secretdin. my highest hopes for this bot to hit legendary are with secretdin,aggro druid or with a lucky hybrid or face hunter. the bots current limits are pretty obvious when watching the bot play as secretdin against hunter decks using explosive trap as the bot really cant play around secrets a deck like control warrior must play around secrets or the early on aggro will easily over take the bot

Vick Nan;31245 wrote:
By no means can I consider myself expert on the HS eco and trust even weauats judgement better than my own - I cannot ask for any higher priorities on something I'm basically fond of here. Granted, I do however believe, with my admittedly limited understanding that WalWal has more potential on the HR->Legendary front than many other decks, simply because of the price already, as weauat also pointed out. In everything, something usually emerges on the top and regarding HS it seems to be this deck.

Maybe do a good-humoured compromise by keeping the deck along, have data sets for it, and those who possesses can go ahead and try their luck. In the very least it's a decent addition to the library, I think.
Ofcourse it should also wait for it's turn to get the proper HR/Project Legend treatment, too.

Best deck for us to focus on all things considered? I actually have no idea, come to think of it. It seems pretty substantial amounts of empirically gathered data is needed for a somewhat reliable answer, the most data we have right now on is Secredin, so maybe that then, specifically for us here, is the safest bet?

What I do know is that if it takes some kind of a Retard-RAWR-FACE-RAWR-Hunter, I don't even want to make Legendary with it lol

/ot
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Vick Nan
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 5:11:58 PM(UTC)

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Obviously that sucks to hear, but your input is really valuable so thanks

Perhaps best to rather treat the WalWal like a pet project then

Still really loving the deck :)
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BlackOak
#12 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 6:15:25 PM(UTC)
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Vick Nan;31257 wrote:
Obviously that sucks to hear, but your input is really valuable so thanks

Perhaps best to rather treat the WalWal like a pet project then

Still really loving the deck :)
Don't write it off ust yet, yeah It's has problems with freeze mage & face hunters but when the bot plays the deck it comes up with some awesome win conditions :)
I have had to sub a few cards but, even with a low sample rate (50 games) on ladder it has 50% win-rate :)
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Vick Nan
#14 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2015 7:27:13 PM(UTC)

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BlackOak;31258 wrote:
Don't write it off ust yet, yeah It's has problems with freeze mage & face hunters but when the bot plays the deck it comes up with some awesome win conditions :)
I have had to sub a few cards but, even with a low sample rate (50 games) on ladder it has 50% win-rate :)


Wow - that's with your deck?
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weauat
#13 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 12:10:24 AM(UTC)

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at what ranks and what deck list? as i said the main problem for control warrior is the speed of the current meta and high aggro decks like hunter seem to destroy control warrior pretty easily as the bot simply cant play around traps or build up enough steam mid to late game to counter hunter hero power or druid FON combo consistently without losing out to other more common control decks (tech options for aggro weaken the late game), decks like freezemage tho dont seem to be any problem as i've seen my control warrior many times fatigue freeze after building up crazy armor. I dont mean to come off as insulting or anything i've just used this deck alot both in actual play and botting using both ur settings and before you came around standard settings. yes the bot can come up with crazy and unique win conditions but thats on rare occasions and a more simple and effect deck like secretdin is simply played better then anything i can see the control warrior doing with silver as the programming is simply put to limited
BlackOak;31258 wrote:
Don't write it off ust yet, yeah It's has problems with freeze mage & face hunters but when the bot plays the deck it comes up with some awesome win conditions :)
I have had to sub a few cards but, even with a low sample rate (50 games) on ladder it has 50% win-rate :)

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gatomiaurex
#15 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 2:23:38 AM(UTC)

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The problem with the CW deck and HR is that a CW deck must be played re actively to an opponent's move and HR plays what he can on curve, that leads to a no activator grommash or sometimes equipping a death's bite if it doesn't have anything else to spend the mana on.

CW is played to outlast your opponent's threats while saving hand for a big finish and the bot would most likely go out of hand on turn 7 if it gets a low curve.
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BlackOak
#16 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 4:57:03 AM(UTC)
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The latest stats for my deck dropped down to 44.7% over 85 games :/

Druid: 2-4 (33.3%)
Hunter: 3-8 (27.3%)
Mage: 6-13 (31.6%)
Paladin: 2-10 (16.7%)
Priest: 8-2 (80%)
Rogue: 4-3 (57.1%)
Shaman: 6-2 (75%)
Warlock: 1-4 (20%)
Warrior: 6-1 (85.7%)

Being such a slow deck I will try to mulligan at least one early control card per class.
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Dre
#17 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 5:57:40 AM(UTC)

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I'am currently at 46,6% on 58 games, I started on rank 16 with it went down to rank 11 in the night with around 58%. But now during the day, chances are dropping currently steady at rank 12, think it will go lower if i run it in the night again.

This is my current winrate and stats



Stats show its still weaker against fast decks ((aggro-)druid, hunter and paladin) and strong vs all others, Will do some tweaks for this, tweaking mulligan will help this allot too (i.e. keeping death's bite more often)

Iam using: The autoswicher with BlackOaks, mulligan, combo and settings for controlwarrior, only change i made so far is adding to hold 1 x Slam because that was still missing (fixed soon i heared ;))


I crafted my own deck based on other decks, adjusted for botting, this is the deck:


Explanation why i chose this cards:


Please remember in theory you dont need to have 55% winrate, 45% would be enough but then u need to play about 100.000 games to legend ;)

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r..._should_take_to_get_to/

@BlackOak for mulligan, Deck Vs Deck shows that most controllwarriors keep Death's bite in 85% of the cases

http://www.hearthstoneto...ntrol-warrior-deck-list/
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Vick Nan on 10/19/2015(UTC)
Vick Nan
#19 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 7:11:29 AM(UTC)

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Looking at the forest for the trees, or the big picture if you will, what's the deal with p2w and botting ? Do we have a consensus here?

Is it favourable for HR/Silver to get it the best deck money can buy, or is it actually possible it just pisses the whole thing away in a spectacular manner? I'm thinking weauat is saying 'nay' - bot being unable to handle the complexity of optimally playing "the best deck dust can buy".
It's a solid concern.

Am I hearing a sounding 'maybe' from the others?

I personally just can't get my head around the 'complexity detail' effectively ruining all other potential gains for an, afterall, p2w deck in HR. But as I said, what do I know. (edit: the only thing I've got going for me is having played computer games for 31 years and thus a gut feeling of the landscape as a whole I guess)

BlackOak is doing the other solid thing (as opposed to just knowing the HS eco and meta and speak out of that knowledge) by bringing in the empirical approach.

This is also what I will do. I bought a ten euro set last night and get this I got two fucking legendaries from 7 packs, one of which was fucking golden (Some Shaman whirlwind king or shit like that) no less. I'm going all in on WalWal today, meaning extensive forum/HS site research, discussions and also all the current deck variations, plus will dedicate my single HR license playing them, for gathering data.

I'm actually tempted to box another Win and run another HR license from there with my other account, as I have two pretty much identical. I love projects like this.


Not to mention this has become a great measure of the people around here. No fucking degraded capslock-induced namecalling and arguing as per the usual cutyme on the web.


There's a saying (here in Finland, atleast?)

"Everybody knows you can't change the world. Then one day someone walks in, who doesn't know this - and changes the world"

Best,
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Vick Nan
#18 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 7:16:59 AM(UTC)

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Dre;31273 wrote:

- Alextraza


More than once have I seen the bot take the hero down to a hair-raising 3 or 4 health, gaining a lot of tempo in doing that, and the next turn raise the health back to 15 with Alex. I think the addition is solid.
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Dre
#20 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2015 8:23:05 AM(UTC)

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I played HS long before i even know botting excist, I saw Trump playing against a bot then did some research and found this to get me the 30 wins mostly for gold. By then I had a golden mage myself and got to legendary once (never after haha) The only times I payed for the game are the 2 PVE contents and I bought the welcome pack with a new expension for GvG and TGT. That having said i got most of the cards in game (exept a few legendaries) not because of the packs i bought or the long time i played but mostly thanks to this bot. This bot gets you 150g easy a day (30 wins + the avarage quest) calculations show the likelyhood of a legendary is about 99% on 25 packs. Since u get about 25 packs in 2 weeks. You will find atleast one legendary every 2 weeks and then ofc u also get dust from the double cards. Which means when u have most cards u will be able to craft a legendary from the dust of about 25 packs aswell. With this info you get 1 random and 1 chosen legendary every 2 weeks without paying a single euro/dollar/whateveryoupaywith :D

So i dont entirely agree on this deck is P2W, atleast not when you are botting.


2nd Discussing is people saying we shoudnt aim to get to legend because blizz will notice it. I honestly think most people just got heartranger and never look at this forum. The people activly involved in the project are a handfull i think so not much to worry about. I have a little bit of programming background and this project excites me. because i like to theorycraft and try to contribute to this forum to get us there. Big bow to BlackOak here and ofc also to botmaker and joyadmin.

Back to the deck.

- Thanks for poining out alextraza's benefits. I found myself in the situation where both me and the enemy where at such a healt that it shoudnt be played and then it a dead card, esp with all the armor you build up as controllwarrior. Iam currently also testing Grand Crusader instead of sylvanas with very good results so far. (Got this tip from heartpwn)

- Also just saw the bot playing the deathrattle of Death's bit combo'ing Hellscream succesfully! really good to see.

- I have the feeling the bot plays control warrior pretty decent overall btw. Saw some misplays tho, will post that to botmaker
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